Club Run Management - splitting or dropping

I too have been at both ends of the spectrum. It seems sensible to me, and if nothing else the polite thing to do, to discuss a split rather than just to let it happen. In my experience any "slower" riders on any particular day will happily form a separate group or ride alone. The issue comes when people are dropped and no one checks whether they are ok etc.

Happy to be proven wrong

Ian

Great post Alec, all of which I agree with.

There's a growing number of people within the membership who are increasingly disillusioned with club runs these days because of the lack of discipline within the groups, to the point where they're just not coming out. There's also a growing number of people who appear (knowingly or otherwise) to want to ride for themselves, not as part of the group.

Personally, I'm at the point where my enthusiasm and willingness to help out or lead groups on club runs has waned a little because of days like the 16th, or the run a week or two before where two members had words because one didn't like being told how to ride.

Basically club runs aren't about ego IMO. We all share the work for the better of the group. It's not about strava segment chasing, not taking a turn at the front saving yourself for the sprint at the end or expecting others to drag you round because you either don't know where you're going or you're not really quick enough to keep pace with everyone else. It's not about you, it's about us.

If you want to do your 'training' or grabbing that KOM or whatever, do it on your own time. Riding in a group requires skill and concentration and if that's not your thing, I think you should re-evaluate what riding you want to do. I love riding in a group and when it works, it's a beautiful thing to be involved in. But unfortunately I'm finding it's getting less frequent on a club run.


Tony.

For what its worth I think waynes recent post on the forum regarding club ride etiquette made perfect reading and potentially reflects this topic well.

Maybe now is a good time to discuss issues around group leaders. I know various people are talking about this issue and it does appear that other club members should now consider taking on this role from time to time instead of the same old faces who do a magnificent job of organising the groups on a sunday morning. Gp1 sort themselves out without any fuss from what I witness but us lesser mortals who grow in numbers need more management. I know its not the perfect world and we deal with whatever is in front of us on a sunday morning but my feeling is we split the groups into ability with the brave group leader stating the pace of that ride and then stick to it and with this in mind good old discipline might prevail where by everyone takes there turn on the front because they will be riding within there comfort zone. Obviously again this is in the perfect world where not everything goes according to plan and sometimes people may become unwell during the ride ( I know this through personel experience).
The crux of this then is more club members stepping up to lead a group out ensuring that before a wheel even hits the road what the pace will be for that ride ect, much better discipline, people being honest and realistic about there ability (sometimes on that given day).
Ive been at times just about guilty of everything but I've learnt off more experienced club members how to ride in a group for the higher cause. Everyone makes mistakes and we learn from them (hopefully). I personally want to enjoy the club runs like all club members do.
Ive had a rethink and would think about taking a group out in time but without blowing my own trumpet think I'm contributing my fare share to the club at the moment suffice to say I'm not discounting yet and would be quite happy providing whinging is kept to the minimum.
Maybe the group leaders can volunteer prior to the club run via the forum. I know this obviously depends on how many people turn out on the sunday but at least if a few members register interest prior to the event then that would be a good starting point even if we are left with the luxury of a surplus of leaders. This may give you an idea of what you want to achieve on the ride and plan contingencies
SHOOT ME NOW

Although I'm not there this coming Sunday I would be happy to lead a group from time to time.

Another issue we have, and I know has been the subject of some discussion, is the size of the groups. There seems to be a consensus that groups should be of no more than about 10 people as this allows the group to communicate effectively and people will be more conscious of anyone who is struggling with the pace.

In recent weeks, no more so than on the week where a couple of people “had words”, far larger groups set out (or a couple of groups came together after the start) and this was IMO a contributory factor in the issues that arose.

Larger groups are not only harder to manage, but with the yo-yo effect those at the back have to work harder and harder to keep the group together through bends etc and those at the front are often unaware that a split has happened.

With more rigor on group sizes and, as Terry suggests, a clear view of the expected pace before we set out I think the problems we have seen will be largely resolved.

We shouldn’t lose sight however that the vast majority of the riders still enjoy and get a lot out of the rides and the club is somewhat fortunate to be vibrant enough to be having issues such as this as the club goes from strength to strength !

Ian

There seems to be a few people who think 10 per group is easily manageable and I would agree with that but again obviously is dependant on numbers and ability.

Probably not a wise move, but I am going to add my views...!!

The report by Tony states that the "split" happened when Dan had a puncture... and not when anyone was dropped.

I was actually on this ride. Dan punctured and several stopped with him to fix the puncture, while several of us stopped a hundred meters or so up the road.

Alastair made the executive decision for us to split into 2 groups at this stage and head off leaving the second group fixing the puncture, as we were a quite a large group, not because there were people suffering and slowing everyone down. 15 is probably too large as a single group on a Sunday club run..

I don't know if I am one of the people that Dan H or Chrisbpr had an issue with, because nothing was said at the time, or back at the coffee shop and again no names are mentioned in the comments to Tony's report. I think its particularly embarrassing as a club, that issues like this are shared in an open public forum and not brought up with the members at the time, or even in a members only section of the forum. ( Although personally I think you should say it at the time and not wait to get home and type it up )

It had been quite some time since I had with this group, and I was pretty shocked at some of the riding in the early stages of the ride (sprinting off for strava segments, sprinting off up the hills while the wind was at our backs and then immediately hiding back in the group when it caught up etc. ). However, I spoke to those at the time while on the ride (and introduced the concept of " you go off the front, you sit on the front to allow others to benefit from your energy" ).. so I didn't feel I needed to later vent and complain on the forum. I think more people should speak up at the time.

The person getting dropped has just as much responsibility to say something as the people doing the dropping. With the long fast group ( FKA group 1! ) every rider who rides regularly with us is man enough to say if the pace is too quick for them and will ask either for the group to hold up a little for them if they are just off the pace ( and everyone goes up hills at a different pace ) or leave them to make their own way back, if they are just not with it that day. It happens to everyone.

Cheers,

Joe

* waiting for the backlash *

Having promised myself that I would never get involved in forum debates (lessons from a wise plumber friend), I don't know why I am putting my opinion out here..... probably in Joe's defence??

Speaking from personal experience as (previously a regular but lately an occasional) grp 1 rider -

Group 1 seems to be so straight forward and uncontroversial (although it hasn't always been like that!!). You turn up and know exactly what to expect - a hard ride in a small group, pain, some tough turns on the front, a sprint home, tea and cakes. If you turn up and have a bad day, fall back slightly, lose touch on a hill etc, then because the group is so small it is easily noticed and a call comes to regroup. No bad feelings, no moaning and no guilt trips. Similarly, those feeling that they are holding the group back (due to hangover, lack of training or whatever) will say "carry on guys, I am going to do my own thing" - no bad feelings, no moaning and no guilt trips. Simples! Having said that, it is still a social ride - some talking does actually go on (when you are not gasping for air).

On a few occasions I have started with grp1 and found myself struggling with the pace, so as we have passed the next grp down I have told grp 1 that I am joining grp 2. On both occasions grp 2 was certainly over 20 strong, probably nearer 25/30, and the difference in abilities was enormous. In my view there were far too many riders in the group for everyone to be safe in traffic. The slower riders were struggling to stay with the group (especially on inclines) whilst the faster riders were constantly waiting up. With the numbers so high, it was impossible for those at the front to know whether all riders were "on" so splits and gaps were constantly, but unintentionally, occurring. This in turn makes it very difficult for other road users to pass.

I guess my point is the same as most other comments above. A social ride can still be a social ride with only 6 to 8 riders, and it is far safer too.
If we had (say) 7 groups of about 6 to 10 riders, aiming to average (say) 20,19,18,17,16,15 and 14 mph respectively, every rider could find a group that would suit their precise ability, meaning the group could work efficiently, sharing the workload, and every individual would get equal training value from it. If a rider wants to test themselves they can step up a group, knowing that it isn't such a huge step (rather than the current step up to grp1). Similarly, if you want a slightly easier day you can step down a group, also knowing it wont be too much easier. It would be easy to keep tabs on who is off the back and far less re-grouping would be required (as everyone is similar ability). There are enough people out there with bike computers, so someone in every group is bound to know the route, and we are all grown up enough not to need a "leader" for each group - teamwork is the key.

The above may not seem practical - lining up in 7 small groups, watching where your mate goes and then quickly changing line (a bit like runaround, for those old enough to know it) and I think many of you would not wish to go that way anyhow ("Sunday is the club ride and it should be a steady, large group social ride"). Trying to accommodate both views will always bring us back to this same issue - it seems to have been raised so many times before and we are still in the same position.

Myself,.. I am quite happy knowing I can turn up and join a group that does exactly what it says on the tin

It had been quite some time since I had with this group, and I was pretty shocked at some of the riding in the early stages of the ride (sprinting off for strava segments, sprinting off up the hills while the wind was at our backs and then immediately hiding back in the group when it caught up etc. ). However, I spoke to those at the time while on the ride (and introduced the concept of " you go off the front, you sit on the front to allow others to benefit from your energy" ).. so I didn't feel I needed to later vent and complain on the forum. I think more people should speak up at the time.

some valid points in this paragraph but whilst I cant refer to this ride as I wasn't there I would say on the previous Sunday ride there were problems in the our group which were sorted out midway through or at least I would like to think so although some cryptic comments have been posted on strava which I can only assume and it is a assumption were directed at that particular jaunt out. Hopefully now differences have been ironed out people have learnt including yours truly and we can move on in perfect utopia for the benefit of the club and its members. Hopefully this sunday will see at least two group leaders per group taking up the mantle and keeping the segment chasers ect under control and the groups will hopefully work as a group for the better good WONT YOU. Again this is all dependent on who presents on Sunday. This is not rocket science and the club runs to my mind should benefit all and enjoyed not destroyed (its taken me all week to think that one up)

The first paragraph was obviously Joes post which I just cut and pasted as Im to stupid to do it properly